I *think* Lashlee had started implementing a few V&S elements when he was under Dykes at SMU. They had a “Gas plays” series which I believe is an aspect of the system, and he runs some Deep Choice (don’t know if he did them as OC at SMU but he definitely did at Miami). So Dykes has dabbled with some of this before. Definitely curious to see that offense with Kendall there this year and whether or not they blend the Air Raid dropback game with V&S or go all in on V&S. Obviously TCU did plenty of power running and RPOs last year anyways, but they still had the core AR concepts.
Also another name to watch: Anthony Tucker, co-OC Indiana. Learned the system under Heupel at UCF and ran a lot of it at Utah State the last two years. I suspect Walt Bell will call plays there, but it’ll be interesting to watch for any influence.
Hopefully Lane has also learned that 4th down analytics is a fickle mistress when you’re a head coach and not a writer for the Ringer or PFF.
On a more topical note, pretty interested to see how this system evolves in the future. Seems like the deep choice series/play/etc. is something a lot of teams could add to an existing playbook as long as the rest of the passing game isn’t too extensive.
I think it’s also probably really hard, assuming you have a background in other offenses and passing concepts, to not add things in from other systems. Probably why Ole Miss’ offense looks the way it does and not like vintage Baylor. But if you keep adding stuff in, then you kind of lose the simplicity, division of labor, and simplified skill sets needed for the receivers which makes up a lot of the effectiveness of the system.
I'm not entirely sure where he fits on the coaching tree, but I'm almost certain that Kevin Decker, the new offensive coordinator at Old Dominion, plans to run the Veer and Shoot offense. He used this system at Fordham last season, where they averaged 600 yards per game and scored 49 points.
If you'd like to confirm that's what Fordham ran last season, you can watch some game film from this past fall at the following link:
Definitely looks like it. Question is whether he just picked up on nature of it and designed his own system on the same ideas or if he picked up the language and specifics somewhere?
One of my favorite articles you’ve posted, storytelling and humor on point. Hodgepodge of notes: Hazel in your graphic is listed as HC. Has Kiffin ever actually beaten Saban? Would love to know the major differences between 3-3-5 Mint and 3-3-5 Flyover in the future article. Why aren’t more schools running the V&S? It’s so simple and effective. Do you almost have to hire a coach on the tree or can you not copy it from scouting? Also had no idea Belichick and Shannahan were running V&S - I was going to ask if recruiting was a downside, but if it’s being run by two of the best in the NFL, why would that be?
Kiffin hasn't beaten Saban but Heupel obviously did. Kiffin has scored tons of points on him.
3-3-5 Mint we'll get to for sure.
Not sure on why teams don't run the V&S but I think it's mostly that it's kinda all or nothing.
Belichik and Shanahan are NOT running the V&S, just meant to show that Garoppolo has always played for amazing coaches and very friendly schemes. It's definitely a recruiting downside to run the scheme because it doesn't translate well to the pros.
The recruiting aspect is a Catch-22 that reminds me of the Paul Johnson-era Georgia Tech teams. His best teams were when he had the carryover recruits from Gailey. The scheme was always incredible, but the best athletes didn’t want to play in that scheme, and his team quality diminished over time.
But the V&S is not the triple option. It’s infinitely more exciting and translatable to the NFL. So why is it all or nothing? And if you have the right players - is it unstoppable or are there other downsides besides recruiting?
The wide splits and heavy option emphasis of the scheme makes it so that the QBs are easily programmed but don't develop a full skill set that translates to more complex offense. Ditto the wideouts.
It's a high floor, low ceiling offense in terms of giving you advantages against good teams. Last year Tennessee made the ceiling look pretty high but...I think it will go down as defensive coaches in the SEC realize they can't defend it like they do everyone else.
Saban and Mark Stoops had embarrassing gameplans against it last year.
Agreed on Stoops/Saban. That plus a DUI landed Golding in Oxford. I would be very interested in your Masterclass Chess Match of Heupel/Golesh vs. Kirby/Muschamp/Schumann. My takeaway from that game was UGA emphasized taking away the run, matched up man to man on WRs, and dared Hooker to beat them. Did you think it was anything more complex than that or am I missing something? If Heupel can get at least two WRs that can win those 1:1s (a la Bama/LSU recently) then the ceiling to me seems like they could win it all.
Last question: replace Hooker with Burrow and the WRs with the ‘19 LSU receivers. Everything else stays the same. Do you think that teams wins the Natty?
I *think* Lashlee had started implementing a few V&S elements when he was under Dykes at SMU. They had a “Gas plays” series which I believe is an aspect of the system, and he runs some Deep Choice (don’t know if he did them as OC at SMU but he definitely did at Miami). So Dykes has dabbled with some of this before. Definitely curious to see that offense with Kendall there this year and whether or not they blend the Air Raid dropback game with V&S or go all in on V&S. Obviously TCU did plenty of power running and RPOs last year anyways, but they still had the core AR concepts.
Also another name to watch: Anthony Tucker, co-OC Indiana. Learned the system under Heupel at UCF and ran a lot of it at Utah State the last two years. I suspect Walt Bell will call plays there, but it’ll be interesting to watch for any influence.
*handed L to Nick Saban’s Alabama.
Hopefully Lane has also learned that 4th down analytics is a fickle mistress when you’re a head coach and not a writer for the Ringer or PFF.
On a more topical note, pretty interested to see how this system evolves in the future. Seems like the deep choice series/play/etc. is something a lot of teams could add to an existing playbook as long as the rest of the passing game isn’t too extensive.
I think a lot of teams run a similar play but they’re just not all-in on that stuff.
Also Tennessee has their version where they do it from stacks with a switch. That’s been a uniquely difficult variety of it.
I think it’s also probably really hard, assuming you have a background in other offenses and passing concepts, to not add things in from other systems. Probably why Ole Miss’ offense looks the way it does and not like vintage Baylor. But if you keep adding stuff in, then you kind of lose the simplicity, division of labor, and simplified skill sets needed for the receivers which makes up a lot of the effectiveness of the system.
Yup. It’s really an awful lot like the triple option, which you need to major in or else not try to rely upon.
Ian,
I'm not entirely sure where he fits on the coaching tree, but I'm almost certain that Kevin Decker, the new offensive coordinator at Old Dominion, plans to run the Veer and Shoot offense. He used this system at Fordham last season, where they averaged 600 yards per game and scored 49 points.
If you'd like to confirm that's what Fordham ran last season, you can watch some game film from this past fall at the following link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YELQ2y_0FYI&ab_channel=WallytheBroncoToo
Definitely looks like it. Question is whether he just picked up on nature of it and designed his own system on the same ideas or if he picked up the language and specifics somewhere?
One of my favorite articles you’ve posted, storytelling and humor on point. Hodgepodge of notes: Hazel in your graphic is listed as HC. Has Kiffin ever actually beaten Saban? Would love to know the major differences between 3-3-5 Mint and 3-3-5 Flyover in the future article. Why aren’t more schools running the V&S? It’s so simple and effective. Do you almost have to hire a coach on the tree or can you not copy it from scouting? Also had no idea Belichick and Shannahan were running V&S - I was going to ask if recruiting was a downside, but if it’s being run by two of the best in the NFL, why would that be?
Kiffin hasn't beaten Saban but Heupel obviously did. Kiffin has scored tons of points on him.
3-3-5 Mint we'll get to for sure.
Not sure on why teams don't run the V&S but I think it's mostly that it's kinda all or nothing.
Belichik and Shanahan are NOT running the V&S, just meant to show that Garoppolo has always played for amazing coaches and very friendly schemes. It's definitely a recruiting downside to run the scheme because it doesn't translate well to the pros.
Ah okay I misread the part on Belichick/Shanahan.
The recruiting aspect is a Catch-22 that reminds me of the Paul Johnson-era Georgia Tech teams. His best teams were when he had the carryover recruits from Gailey. The scheme was always incredible, but the best athletes didn’t want to play in that scheme, and his team quality diminished over time.
But the V&S is not the triple option. It’s infinitely more exciting and translatable to the NFL. So why is it all or nothing? And if you have the right players - is it unstoppable or are there other downsides besides recruiting?
The wide splits and heavy option emphasis of the scheme makes it so that the QBs are easily programmed but don't develop a full skill set that translates to more complex offense. Ditto the wideouts.
It's a high floor, low ceiling offense in terms of giving you advantages against good teams. Last year Tennessee made the ceiling look pretty high but...I think it will go down as defensive coaches in the SEC realize they can't defend it like they do everyone else.
Saban and Mark Stoops had embarrassing gameplans against it last year.
Agreed on Stoops/Saban. That plus a DUI landed Golding in Oxford. I would be very interested in your Masterclass Chess Match of Heupel/Golesh vs. Kirby/Muschamp/Schumann. My takeaway from that game was UGA emphasized taking away the run, matched up man to man on WRs, and dared Hooker to beat them. Did you think it was anything more complex than that or am I missing something? If Heupel can get at least two WRs that can win those 1:1s (a la Bama/LSU recently) then the ceiling to me seems like they could win it all.
I wrote about it at the time and that was definitely my memory of it. Just play cover 1 and make Hooker beat you.
Last question: replace Hooker with Burrow and the WRs with the ‘19 LSU receivers. Everything else stays the same. Do you think that teams wins the Natty?